Oops I Did It Again Bluegrass
#226 
Posted 06 February 2022 - 01:00 PM
I used to be a peradventure creative person and visual observer, run into some of my sketches: https://world wide web.cloudyni...mars/?p=8947494
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#227
Posted 06 February 2022 - 01:03 PM
Those sketches of Mars are par excellence Jeff.
#228
Posted 06 February 2022 - 01:47 PM
Those sketches of Mars are par excellence Jeff.
Thank you; I tin can't do it anymore. I drew them also dark because over the years in ALPO we had to bear down with the pencil so they could be published in our journal, and then it became a habit.
Edited by Jeff B1, 06 February 2022 - 04:12 PM.
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#229
Posted 06 February 2022 - 02:26 PM
I've been visual from the commencement when that was all that was available. For a few years I did become into astrophotography in earnest. Much easier now than in the motion-picture show day. There's no doubt that photography can show fashion more the same optic shows visually. But it is then fourth dimension consuming, not only getting to a dark site, but setup, polar align, auto guiding, etc. Then the hours spent mail processing add together to the effort. So I would become perhaps only 1 object each dark for all the attempt. Only at present that is left for others, like the great examples nosotros come across on the social media.
The final astro-photos I captured were when Mars was near in 2020. That entailed capturing 21 Ten 3-minute videos (at 240 frames per 2nd), each with some 40,000 individual frames. I processed just one of those videos into this Mars image, the best planetary I've ever gotten. The other 60 GB of videos reside unprocessed on a SSD for a time when I get bored.
Mars 2020.jpg
C-eleven f/x, ZWO ASI290MC color video camera, 3152 frames stacked w/ AutoStakkert!-three + Registax-6
Also before in 2020 was Comet Neowise
Pentax 135mm f/2.5, Sony NEX-vii, ISO 800, 30 seconds on a habitation fabricated befouled-door tracker
Now 99.99% of my observing is visual, with whatsoever telescope currently has my interest. Observing sessions are much shorter, commensurate with my energy level at 76 years of age. Just it's from B5 at home versus B2 at my dark site, ane-1/2 hours away. Light pollution and moist marine air has its impact on what I can seen. But 60 years of visual observing has taught me to get the most out of what is visible. And the wonderful globe of double/multiple star observing laughs at light pollution.
I would venture a guess that the many newcomers getting into apprentice astronomy and astrophotography will end up similar to myself. Others may be hooked on the thrill of what astrophotography offers and stay with it. But for each his own.
Articulate Skies,
Russ
Those are lovely images Russ. I'm a lazy astronomer and I call up I'd observe imaging too frustrating, and don't want to get caught up in anything more complex than a sketchbook and pencil. I may be lazy when it comes to technology, but I have been blessed with the patience of Job when observing at the eyepiece and take seen some incredible sights despite only using smallish refractors.
The fastened sketch was made in 2020 using a Tak FC100DZ and binoviewer. I as well made a lovely sketch of comet Neowise only unfortunately the paradigm of the sketch is too large for CN. I'll keep trying!
I may ane day turn to imaging, merely I remember after 42 years equally a visual observer, and still being utterly content, I might need some other lifetime or two before I get circular to information technology.
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#230
Posted 06 February 2022 - 02:37 PM
When I beginning started out in astronomy I did buy a second hand SLR camera from a flea market. I removed the frosted glass then I'd see stars more hands. I recollect i may have had delusions of grandeur, as my telescope was a 60mm Prinz Astral, and the but astro related photograph that camera ever took is attached below. The scrawny malnourished looking youth isn't quite so malnourished looking these days, and has less hair thankfully, but still loves refractors.
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#231
Posted 06 February 2022 - 02:55 PM
"Anybody tin can depict" makes equally much to me as "anybody can solve differential equations."
I still have my old, "elementary" (Yeah, that discussion actually is part of the title 
) university textbook on differential equations,
I get what you're saying. Some people'due south drawing abilities are far different than the abilities of others. Those who get-go cartoon at an earlier age will hold an advantage over those who offset out in their senior years (This tends to be true of mathematical ability as well).. Yet, with practice, (after numerous ups, downs, and bumps forth the way) the overall, general tendency will be one of improvement. Ane might fifty-fifty say it'south a bit similar the ability to see celestial objects and details within those objects while looking through a telescope's eyepiece. That besides takes practice; and with more than practise, ane's skills tend to better.
A mathematician might fifty-fifty look at cartoon equally putting the tip of a pencil to a piece of paper and calculating what bending (and management) to outset moving it in. Then at that place's "how far do I become in that direction before changing the slope of the resultant line." How quickly does that slope change? Oops! This isn't quit right. The slope at this point ought to be slightly more than in the negative direction. So information technology gets stock-still and the drawer continues in that manner until that item curve has been satisfactorily completed. So, mayhap, an additional line is started at a carefully calculated point on the 2 dimensional surface (or plane) of the paper. And the process continues until the mathematician (or drawer) is satisfied with the correctness of the result.
Drawing can be looked upon as a serial of advisedly calculated mathematical curves. It's just a thing of getting the slopes right at each point along those curves -- simple mathematics. Along some intervals the drawer might even want to shade in the area between a pair of curves, perhaps fifty-fifty with some carefully calculated variations.
It would seem that a mathematical mind might hold an advantage when it comes to drawing. So why not practice both -- a bit of drawing forth with a bit of calculus? Hey, it'due south the way of the universe!
Learning to draw is a bit similar learning anything -- even the solving of differential equations. If a person masters the prerequisites at an early age they are likely to have an easier fourth dimension grasping the concepts and mastering the relevant skills and techniques. Yet, it's yet possible to "learn new tricks" fifty-fifty in our senior years.
And then I'll change a previous argument that was made and say: Anyone can brainstorm the process of learning how to draw.
The prerequisites are a bit more relaxed for drawing than for solving differential equations. If a person can motility a pencil's sharpened betoken on the surface of a sheet of paper, then they're ready to start drawing. In my recollection, the prerequisites for solving differential equations was essentially more than rigorous.
Do or practise not. At that place is no try.
#232
Posted 06 February 2022 - 05:59 PM
When not gouging the paper with a pencil this is most every bit realistic as I could do dorsum in the twenty-four hour period; not sure when this occurred:
The Japanese Mars sketchers draw very lightly, and they are difficult to run across much item in them. I utilise a blending stump to smooth things out: http://world wide web.alpo-astr...ing_Mars_9.html
Edited by Jeff B1, 06 February 2022 - 06:03 PM.
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#233
Posted 06 Feb 2022 - 06:58 PM
Visual simply hither. I like to sketch. AP is expensive and too estimator technical for me.
John
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#234
Posted 06 February 2022 - 07:56 PM
Probably should motility this to sketches, but hither goes it; this was a cartoon I made with several other friends with Parker's 12.5" back in 1982 along with Carlos Hernandez, Chick Capen, someone else I forget and Don Parker. We had been observing when someone mentioned seeing striations in the rings, so we all fabricated "bullheaded test" drawings, then compared sketches to find nigh the same markings in the rings, or "spokes" that confirmed nosotros at to the lowest degree were not crazy.
A few years later on using Parker's 12.v" the aforementioned players, except Chick had passed away, replicated the aforementioned observations in 1987 and sure plenty we came up with the same results as in 1982:
The bang-up thing nigh visual observing is that we learned something and gained experience in sketching planets.
Edited past Jeff B1, 06 February 2022 - 07:58 PM.
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#235
Posted 07 February 2022 - 12:54 AM
Several members of my family unit accept artistic abilities. I'k non ane of them but I did surprise myself at university once while
taking a constitute morphology course where the lab section required making a detailed sketchbook. My drawings were primitive
scratches at offset, simply by the semester's end I had improved (by my standards) tremendously.
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#236
Posted 07 February 2022 - 10:09 AM
+1 on Rowdy388
That made me chuckle. And rang a bell in my memories from the 70s.
My drawings in Plant Morphology never improved, just I did learn that making even awful drawings taught me a keen deal about observing details, and how observational skills improved as I continued my terrible efforts.
I never enjoyed it but certainly learned from information technology.
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#237
Posted 07 February 2022 - eleven:02 AM
Folks, this topic asks, "How many of the states practise simply visual?"
These side discussions about getting into photography and sketching are interesting, merely off-topic.
Permit's please stay on-topic and regard the question here.
smp
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#238
Posted 07 February 2022 - 04:13 PM
Like many others here, I am purely visual except for the few times I've taken images of eclipses, transits or comets with a tripod and a DSLR. I like the simplicity. All of my scopes/big binos are on manual alt/az mounts.
2 or three years ago, I would have guessed that 80-xc% of members hither were visual, but based on the equipment forum lately which shows betwixt 40% and 70% daily unread messages about AP, I call back that has changed.
Jim
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#239
Posted 07 February 2022 - 05:33 PM
While I have dabbled in sketching and more than so with astrophotography, my focus (if y'all will) has gone dorsum to visual for a few reasons. Amongst these are:
- As I get older my energy level is not up to the amount of try needed to sketch or photograph what I hope to come across.
- Related to that is I don't have the will to invest in the effort needed to record an prototype of my target.
- As well the listen-gear up of "been there - washed that" tells me I've given these recording methods my all-time. Now I'll exit information technology to others with more than time, energy, willpower and skills. Their records will satisfy my demand to see a more than permanent record of what is sought.
- My memories of what I have seen (a mental image if you will) is in a sense a permanent record of what was seen.
- Again as I historic period, there is a desire to alive life in a less complicated manner - just enjoying the moment. The universe - brain connectedness has merit according to my changed paradigm.
There are likely some more than reasons for going back to visual. But these same reasons accept me utilizing telescopes that aren't the biggest or best. Of more value to me is ease of utilise in observing.
- Yeah, i of my biggest is my 30-Dollar Telescope - a Hardin/GSO x-inch reflector on Dob mount with DSCs.
- The largest of my OTAs is a Celestron-11 which seldom gets up on its go-to Thou-11 mount.
- More often the Celestron-8 volition detect residence there.
- My old Celestron-5 would fit well at that place, if I hadn't sold information technology years ago.
- When I get the G-11 running again, it volition almost probable conduct my smallest telescope - a nice AT115EDT refractor.
- My current favorite is a home fabricated 8-inch RFT on German language equatorial mount. Now nearing threescore years of historic period, it has refreshed mirror coatings and will soon sport a set of digital eating circles.
Nosotros all accept different reasons for the means past which nosotros savour observational astronomy. And since our circumstances are different, all these are valid. Certainly increasing light pollution is a major cistron in many people pursuing astrophotography. And the recent introduction of LED lighting has made light pollution filters less effective for some forms of visual observing. Merely nosotros all make the best employ of our circumstances. Surely we can all agree, that is a valid reason for doing things the way we exercise.
Articulate Skies,
Russ
Edited by Rustler46, 08 Feb 2022 - 01:39 AM.
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#240
Posted 08 Feb 2022 - 01:27 AM
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#241
Posted 09 Feb 2022 - 07:04 PM
It is not true that we hither "merely do visual." Nosotros do something else: nosotros report our observations. If you only went out to detect for your edification and enjoyment that would exist sufficient. You do non owe your fourth dimension to anyone unless you lot are getting paid for it. In Maslow's Hierarchy money, food, and friendship all follow after personal actualization and transcendance. I believe that broadly here the vast majority of usa do find that transcendance in observation.
That existence so, nevertheless, we hither do report to each other. This is a form of peer-reviewed science publication. That closes the loop in the scientific method. (Norman Wilson Edmund, founder of Edmund Scientific, distributed mayhap the most comprehensive guide to the scientific method for the citizen scientist.) Make information technology three steps or 14, but usually virtually the bottom (if not the concluding) is to publish your findings.
That goes back to Robert Boyle's Skeptical Chymist. Alchemists kept their methods surreptitious. Boyle said that scientific discipline must be open. It was on that basis that Edmund Halley paid from his own purse for Newton to publish his Principia. The Age of Reason led to the Enlightenment and in the 19th century, popular publications blossomed. Scientific American has had several owners and other changes only it is the longest-running journal banner in America.
I am now working on two brief biographies of Agnes Mary Clerke. Like many of her time, peculiarly women such as Maria Mitchell and Caroline Herschel, she was informally educated, largely self-educated. From a eye grade family, her father was a broker. She earned her ain income equally a writer of science articles, especially astronomy for several popular magazines, such as Cognition and The Edinburgh Review, likewise every bit for Nature and two editions of The Encyclopedia Britannica. She could do that because those markets existed. Science publication had go integral to western civilization.
In a sense that is what we are doing here: Cloudy Nights is a database in the 21st century's cognition warehouse.
Congratulations!
(Take yourself out for dinner.)
Best Regards,
Mike Thousand.
---------------------
Editor, History of Astronomy Partitioning
American Astronomical Society
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Edited by mikemarotta, 09 February 2022 - 07:10 PM.
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#242
Posted 09 February 2022 - 09:42 PM
I've been observing since the early 1980'south and still am. I accept snapped a few photos using my mobile phone at the eyepiece but that is the extent of my astro photography ambitions.
When I post on forums well-nigh my observations I rely on description to "illustrate" what I have seen which provides a challenge in itself
Increasingly, over the by 5 years or then, I have noticed that capturing and posting images is attracting many people though. My guess is that the apprentice astronomy population is divided around ii:1 betwixt imagers and visual astronomers.
#243
Posted 10 February 2022 - 05:x AM
In my experience over the last twenty years taking photos of terrestrial landscapes mainly, is that the very best of possible photographic images nigh never happen to the same drama as the actual outcome re: my avatar was one unique moment caught for perpetuity.
Y'all Tin capture it, possibly fifty-fifty an outstanding example, if e'er a camera at the prepare, but it never is.
For that unique moment. In my case I had the right equipment too only I only setup after the magnificent solar pulse of magnetic energy passed when it redoubled or better once again I starting thanking God. For the Hard disk replay!!
I missed dozens of outstanding moments and was unbelievably lucky to get a few.
So in hindsight; but bask the testify and put that great footage straight into permanent memory retentiveness.
Cs&Gs
#244
Posted 18 February 2022 - 05:19 PM
I alive in Toronto's Bortle ix+ skies.
When I bought my Nexstar 8SE I started out as visual. It apace ended due to light pollution. My solution was to sell my eyepiece set and buy an astronomical camera. With information technology, I can at present accomplish mag 19 in 15 minutes and magazine 17 in simply xxx seconds. It was a game-changer for me.
Now I image..., it'south my merely style to the stars.
#245
Posted 18 February 2022 - 05:38 PM
Strictly visual has been good enough for me for the past few decades; and since Comet Neowise has popped in for a couple of appearances already in this thread, here be one of my strictly visual observations of that fine comet. Shown is the original sketch (and notes) that were produced during the 8x40 binocular observation (that required ii overlapping fields of view):
And here be part of a tapestry sketched by yours truly, with all the embroidering done past my wife:
That round affair above the "Due north" is a Covid virus.
Beneath is the whole tapestry, clearly modeled along the theme of a much larger (and far more famous) tapestry that showed Comet Halley -- along with much, much more than:
Thanks for posting those cute tapestries, Sketcher. I'll bet a lot of people would like to buy a impress.
#246
Posted xviii Feb 2022 - 05:46 PM
Another visual-only observer, although I practise some sketching.
All of my photography is done on film, and I don't own a digital camera.
My iPhone, which I don't use for astrophotography, stays in my pocket about of the time.
This recovering mobile telephone aficionado sends a tip 'o' the pin ala Zippy to those who don't own a cell phone. 
Motorola Pulsar I telephone, 1980
Edited past BobSoltys, 18 February 2022 - 05:56 PM.
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#247
Posted 19 Feb 2022 - 11:42 AM
100% visual then far. I started moving into EAA merely never followed through. Anytime I may still go downwardly that path given how light polluted my skies are. I don't think there is whatsoever gamble of getting into full-blown AP. My eyeball is too jealous of the camera and the whole process seems overly complicated. I don't need more than work at a calculator to procedure the images either Also, I like to find several objects in the class of a night (especially a skilful one) and the thought of giving that upward bothers me. I go that some people love AP, but it's but not for me.
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#248
Posted xix Feb 2022 - 04:48 PM
Norms:
You wouldn't say that if yous'd seem my feeble attempts at sketching. Different minds piece of work differently...
"Everyone can draw" makes every bit much to me as "anybody can solve differential equations."
Jon
You can do it. Even those born with talent must piece of work very hard at it.
#249
Posted 19 Feb 2022 - 07:thirty PM
Can't draw just can try. Can't solve differential equations either, and did my best at Calc III before surrenderring.
But my girl is an excellent artist and musician (some other missed souvenir for me), and took Diffy Q as her ' fun, easy A' course and currently works with Bayesian statistics.
But I have my gifts that missed her. Both of us are fortunate to have abilities in various areas that more often than not overlap.
Then I'll disagree.
On topic, yet, there is absolutely no question my poor efforts in drawing at the microscope really improved my observational skills, and I'thousand sure would do the same at the telescope. I recommend it to anyone trying to improve those skills. Essential, nosotros are the brain and eyes as a selector of momentary best visual 'frames', and put the best $.25 to paper in a rough analogue of stacking best frames. No gain, though.
If I could beget loftier gain EAA I'd absolutely try it. Otherwise, all visual, with minimal, perhaps improve called incidental, AP down the route.
As a sidenote, I think the photo of the phone is a decade earlier radiotelephone (Greyness Poupon, anyone?), and the 1980 Pulsar was a early on true jail cell telephone. Just I certainly could exist incorrect.
Edited by markb, 19 February 2022 - 08:36 PM.
#250
Posted nineteen February 2022 - 07:59 PM
100 pct visual. I go my fill of EAA with my ii main observing buddies. I have the best of both worlds!
Source: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/808638-how-many-of-us-only-do-visual/page-10
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